Installation & Pyronix Standalone Cloud Account

[hy288]

Hi,

I’m in the process of looking for a supply/fit install for a Euro46 and DigiWifi for app functionality - HomeControl2.0.

I have a software development background so relatively technical and i have spent some time investigating the registration/setup process involved for App control ie system id, cloud and app passwords on the panel; create Pyronix cloud account; registering system id against Pyronix cloud account; mobile app setup w system id and authenticating w valid user code and app password. Finally authorising the mobile clients on the Pyronix cloud account.

As part of this install I would be wanting full control over the app setup ie if I want to give additional phones access I want control to authorise etc and not to delegate or be reliant on a third party installer.

Would I be correct to say that once a system id is registered to a Pyronix cloud account that its locked to that?
Hence I would need to ensure and request that the installer registers my systemid under my own standalone Pyronix cloud account, and not the installers account.

Would there be any reason for the installer to decline this request or arrangement?
I’m just on the view of having full admin control of my setup.

Cheers,
h

 

[DIYSOS2018]

Accounts are locked to a single cloud account but can be registered from that account to enable it to be added to another.

Can’t see why the installer would stop you doing this - they may however say they can’t support you if you want a service contract.

Worth knowing installers get accounts cheaper than end users too.

 

[DIYSOS2018]

…also just thinking you could ask the installer to set it up for you and default new devices to be auto approved so it actually wouldn’t require any intervention from them downstream unless you wanted to play about with individual end users settings.

 

[hy288]

At the time the installer mentioned it would be about £40-45 for the sub thru them. But i didn't know the details of how this was setup until now. However, hinted that I heard the general sub costs were £12 but £36 via pryonix.
But the response for the difference in price was that i'd get support and reduce future callouts?

 

[DIYSOS2018]

Yeah end users cost installers £12

 

[hy288]

Yeah end users cost installers £12

Thanks for confirming. Thought that was the case.
I just curious, on the pyronix cloud account registration there's the option to setup under user or installer type. As you've confirmed that installers get cheaper sub costs. What's to stop anyone registering under an installer? Is there validation carried out?

But tbh, i don't care if i'm paying £12, £36 or £45. I just want to ensure i have full control of the setup.
I'm just hoping the installer wont decline my request of having it setup in a standalone account.
As it would mean he won't make any money off me from the annual sub, which is where things might be an issue for them?

For me that would be a complete deal breaker, as having control on the setup is an important factor for me.
So probably would not progress with the install without that. I just don't want to be locked down to small company provider.

 

[DIYSOS2018]

Pyronix will check, yes

Out of interest as well as full control on the cloud side of things are you looking to have the same on the actual alarm panel itself or are you happy to leave things per how the installer sets it up?

 

[sparkymarka]

You seem to want best of all worlds ….cheap maintenance with full cover and full control of the app side ? I think you need to make some compromises as an installer has overheads , think you had a good deal on the Chubb price at £17 per month monitoring and on a all inclusive package…

 

[hy288]

Pyronix will check, yes

Out of interest as well as full control on the cloud side of things are you looking to have the same on the actual alarm panel itself or are you happy to leave things per how the installer sets it up?

Do you mean in terms of access to the alarm engineer code? Is that what you are referring to?
I would like to retain the engineer code, but i would not tinker or change any aspects of the alarm config if thats what your asking?
This is something i would definitely leave to the installer (or future alarm providers). But having the engineer code ensures control is still retained.

I would like to port over my current alarm configuration to the new alarm panel, which is something i would get the installer to do. Hence, in answering your question provided that the same setup is ported over then i'd be happy to leave as it.

 

[hy288]

You seem to want best of all worlds ….cheap maintenance with full cover and full control of the app side ? I think you need to make some compromises as an installer has overheads , think you had a good deal on the Chubb price at £17 per month monitoring and on a all inclusive package…

I've had this deal £15-17 for last 9-10 years secured during the initial new build. So do appreciate it was a good deal.
However, that's no longer as its going to be £37. I'm not sure if that's a great deal anymore. But curious as to what your thoughts are on £37 for monitoring and all inclusive (is that reasonable these days)?
Over the 9-10 year period I've not had any major issues as the only kit replaced was - x1 battery replacement, x1 pir and x1 remote fob.

Due to finances these days at close to £40, i personally can't justify the increase that our current provider is asking for (especially from £17).
Realistically it sounds like based on my current allowable costs for maintenance i would probably have to drop down to a standard maintenance package (no monitoring)? So don't get me wrong as I appreciate installers do have overheads and I'd be happy to pay a separate maintenance package with them.

But there are certain aspects (i.e. full control of app side) I feel should be retained by the owner.

 

[DIYSOS2018]

You might find someone happy to install it for you but there’s no reputable company going to do the install and give you the engineering codes, particularly if they provide you proof of grading as part of the install.

Someone may install it and leave you with all default codes to go it alone but if something goes pear shaped you’ll likely need to find a random company to support.

 

[hy288]

You might find someone happy to install it for you but there’s no reputable company going to do the install and give you the engineering codes, particularly if they provide you proof of grading as part of the install.

Someone may install it and leave you with all default codes to go it alone but if something goes pear shaped you’ll likely need to find a random company to support.

Yup I take your point. Appreciate the engineer codes are locked down to protect both parties - liability on the installer, and likewise prevent unintentional changes from customers that impact alarm functionality i.e. deleting pir devices etc.
So would be something i'd accept (not getting engineer code) to retain support, warranty and ongoing maintenance contract etc.

However, I hope there is more flexibility in regards to the pyronix account i.e. not be forced to utilise installer accounts.

Btw, what documentation/certificates should one expect from a reputable installer?

 

[DIYSOS2018]

It’s not really what documentation you should expect from a reputable installer, but rather what you need and whether they can provide it.

There’s not a massive ‘market’ for graded alarms in residential properties, more commercial, but there’s certainly nothing wrong with installing a graded system in a residential property.

If for example it was a requirement for a graded system to be installed as part of an underwriters clause on an insurance policy the installer has to provide certification that the system has been installed to the graded standard required.

Ps, deleting a PIR is the least thing you could go in and tamper with using the engineer codes. A tiny change, which may feel minor, could change an entire panel from being graded to ungraded.

 

[hy288]

It’s not really what documentation you should expect from a reputable installer, but rather what you need and whether they can provide it.

There’s not a massive ‘market’ for graded alarms in residential properties, more commercial, but there’s certainly nothing wrong with installing a graded system in a residential property.

If for example it was a requirement for a graded system to be installed as part of an underwriters clause on an insurance policy the installer has to provide certification that the system has been installed to the graded standard required.

Ps, deleting a PIR is the least thing you could go in and tamper with using the engineer codes. A tiny change, which may feel minor, could change an entire panel from being graded to ungraded.

Its a bit wooly tbh...

https://static.aviva.io/content/dam/document-library/risk-solutions/aviva_security_-_intruder_alarms_-_guidance_for_customers_lps.pdf

However, i guess
1) Use of NSI or SSAIB approved alarm companies
2) Grade 2E for audible only alarms
For monitored alarms▪ Grade 2 for domestic properties▪ Grade 3 for commercial premises